Continuous service date
Hi,
If a casual employee moves to a permanent position, why can't I make the Continuous Service Date to be after payroll start date? It would help make casual a permanent through the same record without having to terminate/rehire.
Thanks,
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Hello Ashleigh Kane
The continuous service start date is based on when the employee started at the company and not when they started a new job role in the company.
So setting the start date to after the employee's start date isn't possible as the date can't be after they were attached to payroll.
I hope this helps clarify.
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Hi Jamie,
Hope you are well. Katie raised this ticket on my behalf. The reason I ask about the Continuous Service Date is I was of the understanding this was a field for reporting only?
Currently, due to the continuous service date, if we have a casual worker who is moved to a permanent position, we require to terminate the casual record and rehire on a permanent basis. This is all required for the purpose of being able to pull a report where the length of service is calculated on the start date of the permanent contract and not on the casual contract (being that they are a classed essentially as a worker and not employee).This is a very time consuming activity being that it is for the purpose of length of service. Not only is there the administrative requirements to process this, but there are also the implications of ensuring things such as pension are relative to the record in addition to a P45 being generated where it may not be necessary. When previously raised I was advised to create a comment category with continuous service date, but this seems to be a poor process for a field which already exists?
If we were to keep their record and just update to permanent we need a field to indicate their continuous service date as a permanent worker. Start Date can't do this as this is their payroll start date (which would be inclusive of their time as a casual) but continuous service date won't let us change it to a date after the payroll start date which is as I've said above very confusing being what I've read from Fourth Support, the field is purely for reporting purposes. Thus the query on why this cannot be overridden for the date to be after the payroll start date, rather than only as of the payroll start date or before it.
Unless there is another way to process this type of change on the same record and I am unaware of this - can you advise why the continuous service date cannot be overridden to a date after the payroll start date?
Thanks,
Emily0 -
Hello Emily.
Yes, the continuous start date is mainly for reporting purposes however it is still part of the functionality and has certain conditions to avoid conflicts.
Using the continuous service start date to report on when they started in their current employment isn't the intended use of the feature.
The continuous start date is for cases where a TUPE has been processed allowing them to keep their original start date.
Employee's start dates for their employment can be reported on by viewing their career history by following the below path.
HR > Employees > Employee list > Search for and select employee > Employee info > Career history.
If you would like to suggest improvements to the reporting of start dates please raise an idea via -
https://help.hotschedules.com/hc/en-us/community/topics/360001928991-Ideas-WFM-UK
I hope this helps clarify.
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Hi Jamie,
hope you are well.
The payroll Bureau has advised the information you have provided is incorrect and the continuous service date can be changed to a later date than the start date. They advised the Start Date is what is changed for TUPE?
Could you advise please?
Thanks,
Emily0 -
Hi Emily,
Thank you for your comment.
The Continuous Service Start Date marks the employee's initial entry into the company, while the Payroll Start Date corresponds to when the employee becomes part of the payroll system. It is important to note that the Payroll Start Date influences various payroll-related configurations, such as absence entitlement through contracts.
For employees transferring from another PAYE reference, the TUPE start date becomes relevant. A TUPE start date can be entered by the user to reflect when the employee was transferred to the new Payroll Company and will be reported to HMRC via the FPS.
There might have been some confusion when differentiating between the TUPE start date and the Payroll Start date. While the TUPE start date can precede the Continuous Service Start Date, the system restricts setting a Payroll Start Date before the Continuous Service Start Date, as it implies being on the payroll system before joining the business, as clarified by Jamie.
For any changes in job title or location, the Career History and Employment History sections provide visibility, but it's important to note that the Continuous Service Start Date functionality is not designed to be a representation of these changes.
Best Regards,
Simon M.
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Hi Simon,
thanks for the clarification.
I asked for clarification on this and if it is possible that the Continuous Service Date can be later than the start date (specifically the Payroll Start Date) and they advised it can be and I may just not have the access to do this - which I am assuming has been a misunderstanding as you've noted on Payroll Start Date and TUPE Start Date.
When emailing with the Payroll Bureau, they advised the Payroll Start Date (I am making the assumption this is the field 'Start Date' we would see at the top of a colleagues HR Record) is changed to match the TUPE Start Date if TUPE is in play for the colleague.
Is this correct? The reason I ask is by changing this date, it has a significant impact on our API to our LMS System due to having intra company transfers where the employee is rehired to Fourth and as such if the 'Start Date' is the same for both records, there is a conflict with one showing a termination date and the other not.
For Continuous Service Date this makes sense. Is there a report purely on Employee and Career History Changes driven by the type of change i.e. contract type, job title etc or do we require to check each individual record?
Thanks,
Emily0 -
Hi Emily,
Thanks again for your email.
That is correct, the payroll start date, in cases where employees are TUPEd over, should ideally align with the TUPE start date. However, it is important to note that neither the payroll start date nor the TUPE start date should pose any issues with the third-party integrated apps.
When Continuous Service Start Date is applied, an employee can continue their learning journey on their LMS system, regardless of change of role, termination, or rehire, and also means that there is just one LMS record capturing all history.
In regards to your reporting question, you can run the 'Employee History Report' to get this information: HR > Reports > Employee History Report > Filter by field = Eg Job Title or Salary > Enter date range > Search
This can also be exported to Excel by selecting 'Export to Excel' in the top right corner of the page.
WFM UK: Employee HistoryHope this clears any confusion and I encourage you to raise a case with the support team if there are any specific examples you would like us to take a look at.
Best Regards,
Simon M.
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Hi Simon,
thank you - by ideally do you mean this is an absolute necessity or the ideal scenario?
Additionally, in terms of the API it is impacting our integration to the API system - i.e. the 'start date' is used on the API so if we do the TUPE process on an intra company transfer the two records will have the same employee number and start date - meaning one record will have a termination date - because of this the LMS System recognises the person as a leaver and therefore closes the record on the LMS.
The only way to prevent this is the Start Date being the day after the termination date on the previous record to ensure a consistency on dates.
The API does not feed via the continuous service date, only the start date which is driven via the Payroll Start Date.
Can you advise?
Thanks,
Emily0 -
Hi Emily,
Yes, the Payroll Start Date must match the TUPE start date as this should reflect the date that the employee began their employment within the PAYE reference to avoid integration issues on Flow.
As previously mentioned, the Continuous Service Start date can be used if the employee has TUPE transferred from one PAYE to another to show their initial start date with the company.
In regards to any integration issues you might be experiencing, I have created a new case (ticket ref #3845079) so we can look at specific examples and discuss with your third-party LMS system how they are calling the information for current and former employees.
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Hi Simon,
Thanks for your reply and raising the ticket for me.
I'm receiving conflicting messages as I was on a call yesterday with our Account Manager and Payroll Bureau and was advised:
Payroll Start Date and Continuous Service Start Date should be the same and Tupe Start Date is the transfer date (i.e. when they TUPE'd to the company or in some circumstances changed PAYE with us having several PAYE's). This is so the entitlements for Statutory payments are correct using the Payroll Start Date. If the Payroll Start Date matches the TUPE Start Date then statutory entitlements are calculated incorrectly as the date would be date of transfer and not continuous service date.
In my opinion, your above explanation is more logical as the Payroll Start Date should be when the current company's payroll started however in doing so this will not calculate the statutory entitlements correctly being that this is not the Continuous Service Date (and the system does not calculate statutory payments via continuous service start date).
I've given Katie Nutter an example employee - Katie please see the note above with the ticket Simon has raised.
Katie Nutter - could the start date process be escalated please and can I get one definitive answer as I left our call satisfied with what was discussed but now see that again there is a conflicting answer and am yet again confused on what should reflect on what. I need to know if we have a TUPE employee (either from another company or changing PAYE basis) what date should reflect the Continuous Service Date, What date should reflect the TUPE Transfer Date and what date is used for Payroll to calculate entitlements - if it is as discussed on the call, the issue remains with our Third Party API for Flow where there is a conflict in the record with one record having an end date existing on it (but both with the same start date).
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